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Recently an American lady arrived in Delhi University, Whose subject of study was 'The ancientness of Vedas' Officers arranged a tea Party in her honor. By chance, I was present in that party. I got introduced to her and I asked her name. She said, "Miss Monila, I have come here to the home of Vedas to do some research on Vedas.' 'I asked her, “ How can I help you in your research work?” Her answer was-" Please tell me something about the ancientness of Vedas."

Madam! you have to first understand the Vedas in order to understand it's

ancientness, which was imparted to the first person of the universe Vaivasvat Manu, when God created the universe. So, it has been undoubtedly been proved that the Vedas are as old as this Universe and the mankind. It would be better if we discuss the importance of Vedas with the help of Vedic literature.

Manu says-

1] Vedas are above all an example for the people who want to know

more about Vedic religion that is duties etc 2/13

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2] Vedas are the basis of all Religion that is duties etc. Religion can

also be known from the Smritis written by the learned and also

from the behaviour of the learned.

3] A person who understands Vedic science very well, can bring

together masses, he can also bring together states,

the legal system and can also direct the whole world. Manu

12/100

4] Manu doesn't give importance to any other duty than that of

studying the Vedic science Manu 12/88

5] There is no other science greater than Vedic science, all other

sciences have their origin in this

6] Vedas are the basis of religion.

7] In every Veda there is preaching about the religion.

8] The princes should be taught the necessary forms of Vedas along with other practical knowledge, as a king has to make his country follow the duties mentioned in the religion, and this knowledge is given only in Vedas.

Miss Monila was surprised when I told her all this She was eager to know about the ancientness of Vedas. So I said Madam, the Anglo-Learned may not understand the ancientness of Vedas. because they do not know the Vedic literature. Those Aryan-learned, who understand the Vedic literature can understand the ancientness of Vedas I will give you some Sutras, and After you concentrate on them, the path of your research will automatically widen for you.

It is impossible to understand the ancientness of Vedas without under stading the ancientness of literature generated after the Vedas. You will have to climb the mountain slowly and not hastily land on the top. I will give you some hints--

1] Madam, it is written in the Chhandogya Upanishada-I have

learnt so many subjects. This shows that so much literature

concerning these subjects was available at that time. But it is

not even known today.

2] In the first part, first chapter of Gopatha-Brahmina there is a

mention of Omkara. There is also a mention of very ancient

glossary of vedic terms. In the same way we also find the

mention of literature of education, grammar, metre and

astrology. But this is not yask's glossary. Because Yaska has

mentioned many sayings of the contemporary Brahmins in

his glossary of vedic terms.

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3] It is also mentioned in Chhandogyopanishda that whatever

Manu has said is the medicine of all medicines. It can be known

from this that the Smritis on which manusmriti is based was

really very ancient.

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4] The last part of Vedantas is called as Upanishadas May Shloks

inform the Upanishadas have reference in other books, Which

are not available today In Prashnopanishad 1/78 th Rucha is

written and 12th after 3/11.6th after 4/14 and 6th after 6/5

are also written. In Chhandogya second after 3/11/1 and two

sholkas after 3/7/6. In Taiteriya 2 after 'Tadeshabhyukta' and

after2/5. In the same way 8th after 4/8, and 6th shloka after

5/11. The shloka after Vruhadaranyaka 1/5/23 and 4/4/7 is also very

ancient. Apart from this the following ancient shilkas are also found in

shatapatha Brahmana.

Tadesha shloka; K 10 A 5 Brah 2 K 16

shloka ; K 14 A 4 Brah 3 K 1

Athaisha shloka : Bhavati: K 14 A 4 Brah. 3k.34

Tadapaite : kll Brah 4 K 5

In this way ancient Sutras, Kalpas, Brahmanas, Grammar, Criticism is found in Brahmana Granthas.

It is written in Gopatha Brahmana:

Madam, Now you have to see from this how ancient the vedas must be .

Definition- The fact is the history of composer of Vedic hymns is available, that existed before this literature. There is a mention of a shloka from earlier literature in Gopatha Brahmana, Where there is a description of 'Savitri Upanishada' A Rishi who is keeping the tradition of'Savitri Viday' alive has analysed this shloka and explained the true meaning of it. This stressed the fact that in Brahmana age people had completely forgotten the meaning of Vedas The meaning of Vedas has always remained mysterious and the key of decoding the meanings lay with very few people. Doesn't this prove the point that the composer of Vedic hymns existed much before the ancient literature?

I firmly believe that there must have been many periods of these composer of Vedic hymns we are aware of only 2 periods among these. Both these periods are away from each other, and they have a long span. It is mentioned in the Gopatha Brahmana that Vishwamitra saw the Ruchas first, then it was seen by Vamadeva, but according to Vedic Index the rishi of Rucha is Vamadeva and next Vishwamitra.

Definition : In the 10th Mandal of rigveda in many Suktsa there is a Rishi assigned to duty of same name. A Rishi is a Visionary and duties are practical

It can be thus concluded that the very ancient visionaries used to get fame by their names itself. Visionaries used to get fame by their names itself Like the leaders, actresses, dancers, astrologers, scientists name their inventions with their names. The history has completely for gotton those composer of Vedic hymns. Or it can be said that the historicians of those times did not mention their names when they wrote the literature. Because literature never dies but the creator of it dose

But still some names of composer of Vedic hymns are remaining like vaivasvat Manu, Nahusha and Yayati.

Thus it can be concluded that--

1] The first period of Vedas is forgotten.

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2] There are Suktas- but the creators is unknown.

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3] There is literature but the creators are not known.

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4] The ancient thoughts gathered from meditations, but they were against assigning their name to the thought.

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5] The Madam was surprised to hear as I went on talking further and she started thinking about the dark-age, which is not mentioned yet.

Now I tried to explain the ancientness of Vedas with the help of an interesting story.

This story is written in Taiteriya Samhita, Maitryani Samhita and Aitareya Brahmana. See this is the story.

All three stories have the same story line, Which is-The sons of Manu distributed all the wealth among themselves as per Manu's wish Manu's youngest son was called Namandishtha, he was staying in Acharya kul at the time of this distribution. He demanded his share after he came home. There was nothing left in the house So the father gave suktas and Brahmna to this son. It is mentioned in 'Sarvanukramani' that rishi of Rigveda Mandal 61st and 62nd sukta is Manu's son Namanedishtha.

It is clear from this story that though the Rishi of these suktas is Namanedishtha and his name appear in 61st and 62nd suktas they are not constructed by him. Many knew Namanedishtha is one of the ten sons of Aryan caste, Vedic suktas were there at that time, so not only the Vedas but the whole Brahman literature existed then.

Vedas and the Universe:

Vedas not only have a relation with its place of origin-India, but Vedas belong to the universe The origin of all religions lies in Vedas Vedas are the guideline for all mankind. The story of Manu's plavan is the first story of every religion. Manu's fish and the boat are one and the same. The surya and the Chandra dynasty are alive only because of Manu, in the same way the whole mankind is supposed to have it's origin in the son's of Nuha, Hema and shena.The whole universe means the progeny of Hemetic and semetic Castes who will not be witness to the ancientness of Vedas or the hymns of Manu, where the history of the universe is witness to Manu's ancientness.

Just think about this.

1. Brahmama period is 22 thousand years old.

2. This period is also of composer of Vedic hymns

3. The period of ancient composer of Vedic hymns, where Manu Nahusha,

Yayati and Namanedishtha belongs Universe.

4. And vedas are ancient than this The mystery of period of ancient and new visionaries is explained in Mundak Upnishda. It says-The duties which great learneds had found out. They were of different kinds in Treta. Satyakama, just do these duties, This is the correct path.

The learneds in Treta had also researched the science of ritual in Vedas to the minutest level. There are two proofs about this.

First, Generation of rain water by kind Janaka with the help of Yadnya, and second, Birth of sons to Dasharatha. Valmiki has written about this Yajurvedic-science in his Ramayana. This clearly indicates that the Upanishadas constructed in the Dwapara period always mentioned shlokas from earlier literature and praised the Yadnya- science in Treta period. These were marvelous literature and praised the Yadnya- science in Treta period. These were marvelous works of Vedas This event dates back to the period of Treta period. Thus there have been 12,64,000 years and 2051 years of this kaliyuga, So Ramayana is 12,68,051 years old and that much old is mention of Puteshti Yadnya and description of rain.

I think Madam Monilla was shocked and said that it is believed that Vedas are only 1500 years old. Are all these thinkers wrong?

I said, Madam what else other than lies can these thinkers talk? There intelligence is limited. Their scale is not the eternity of the universe but the person himself. Vedas can be understood only after a deep study of Vedic literature. The conclusion are not useful over here. The conclusive knowledge says that Vedas were formed around 1200 to 1500 B.B., which really is laughable thought. Maxmuller, MacDonal, Keith Vruhler, Houg, whiteny Wilson, Grifith, Oudar, Vintanitija and jay nobody had studied the Vedic literature in sequence. So the Indian tradition dose not accept it since the flight of bible is very low.

Surya Siddhanta-

Ancient Indian Surya Siddhanta, with the help of which the new Surya Siddhanta is made, dates back to the end of Satyuga. It is written in the new Surya Siddhanta � that Surya Siddhanta was made at the end of the Satyuga. The Astrology method of Surya Siddhanta started according to situation of planets at that time. At that time at the beginning of Tretayuga all planets were in mid position. So it was necessary to define tne 'Dhruva' of astrology.

All the planets were in mid position at the end of krutayuga. Now add the rest of the years of this period to the mentioned krutayuga up to the Now multiply that amout by 12,so that will be the number of months. It has started with beginning of Treta and end of Krutayuga.

After calculations the last day of Satayuga is Tuesday So it is a proven fact that this Grantha was written at the beginning of Treta. There have been 2,16,551 years [12,96,000 years of Treta, 8,64,000 years of Dwapara and 5051 years of Kaliyuga till date] According to this Valmiki dates to 12 lakh years and Surya

Siddhanta dates back to 21 lakh years. Vedas originated after birth and extinction of many literatures The name of Vaivasvata Manu finds mention in ancient composer of vedic hymns of Vedas, who had given some suktas to his son, which are still called by his name In this case, from this historic angle the

ancientness of Vedas dates back to a longer period, as per the research of pundit lokmanya Balganadhar Tilak, nana Pavgi and Mr. Avinash Chandradas.

Vaivasvata Manu was undoubtedly the first person of the whole mankind Vedas existing at his time, only prove the fact that Vedas originated not along with the man but prior to his birth.

Answers to some quarries--

Some experts believe that the creator's of Vedas are composer of Vedic hymns, who created hymns, and these experts derive the age of Vedas from this history, And this is a very big thought.

1. Gopatha Brahmna saya- Vishwamitra was the first visionary for

Ruchas, but now it is Vamadeva. How could two Rishi construct the

same suktas at two different times?

2. Manu knew Rigveda 10/61 and 62 Sukta, but now its Rishi is Manu's

son Namanedishta. The suktas were already with his father manu so

Rishis can not be said to be the creators of hymns.

3. Many Suktas have many Rishis. Rigveda 1/1055- Trita and kutsa and

Rigveda 2/285-- Gatras made Grutsamada Rishi In this way there are

many rishi of the same hymn. Vishwamitra is the rishi upto Rigveda

3/4/8 to 11, but when the same hymn appears in rigved 7/2/8 to 11

then its Rishi is Vashishtha were these hymns constructed together by

all Rishis?

4. Rigveda 8/66 has one hundred visionary Rishis. Assigned to one hymn.

5. The name of the creator of the hymn is mentioned during the rituals,

who actually is not the creator of the hymns. The Goldsmiths, the

blacksmiths do not create gold and silver but create other things from

this gild and silver. The person who plays the flute is known by his

name and not by the person who has made the flute. So the creator of

hymns is the one who gets the ritual dine in Sutragrantha.

6. There are visionaries and creator of Vedic hymns and not the creators

of hymns. A Rishi who explains the meaning of a sukta or hymn is

called the composer of Vedic hymns. For the same reason there have

been different names of Rishis for one suktas to throw light on the

Vedas, and they were also the real propagators of Vedas. Vedas were God.

Inference: Madam Monilla, the anglo- learneds must have misunderstood that Vedas must be written in many different phases. But when we see thet some hymns have been written in Vedas then it then it really creates a doubt. But this doubt is immediately cleared when we compare various Rishis with other composer of Vedic hymns.

Composers of Vedic hymns existed from time to time so the words Nutan, Mahara and poorva are given to these Rishis This cult of Rishis has been explaining the true meaning of vedas from the time to time. So the composers of vedic hymns have to be trusted. Ancient history of composers of Vedic hymns is available too. Vaivasvata Manu was one such Rishi and since Vedas exist even before him, then how can vedas be their creation?

Madam Monilla was looking at me with surprise, and said that we anglo-researchers were roaming in the darkness. That is true. A person expert in Vedas only can decode the meaning of Vedas You are great since you have the capacity to understand the Vedas Vedas are really a store of pure, expert, spiritual knowledge.

Miss Monilla stayed in India for one month only [ may 1 to 31]. We bid her

farewell on 1 june 1994, Wednesday. She had asked me before leaving- "I will write to you regarding study of Vedas." I said, "Agreed But I have a request, do not make Dravidia Vedic linguists your ideal. They can misinterpret things. I consider Swami Dayananda Saraswati as authority in Vedas after Sayanacharya. Because he understood Vedic tradition and culture .In order to understand Vedas, it is important to understand hymns 7 of Eshavasyopanishad." Miss Monilla agreed.

Note: I had shown all concerned and relevant reference books mentioned in this article- report to Miss Monilla with the help of Mr.J.B. Khanna, chief of Delhi University Reference books Division. Miss Monilla had arrived here on invitation of 'Department of Indology.'

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Mr. Rasik Bihari Manjul

Delhi University, Delhi 110007

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